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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Scanning&#8221; for Malicious Code is Pointless</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/</link>
	<description>You have to use an Ottopress to get fresh squeezed Otto.</description>
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		<title>By: GoDaddy Hosting = Epic Failure. Looking for a new hosting service. &#187; Otto on WordPress</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-9877</link>
		<dc:creator>GoDaddy Hosting = Epic Failure. Looking for a new hosting service. &#187; Otto on WordPress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 17:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-9877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] recently discovered that a couple of old posts of mine about decoding code used by hackers were no longer loading up. Everything else worked, but not those posts. I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently discovered that a couple of old posts of mine about decoding code used by hackers were no longer loading up. Everything else worked, but not those posts. I [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Be Careful what WordPress Themes you Install &#171; Tournas Dimitrios</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-9408</link>
		<dc:creator>Be Careful what WordPress Themes you Install &#171; Tournas Dimitrios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 20:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-9408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] install a plugin that explores  your core files (and theme folders ) for  suspicious code , but well written code may hide its existence from these plugins [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] install a plugin that explores  your core files (and theme folders ) for  suspicious code , but well written code may hide its existence from these plugins [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: How to detect Malicious ( Exploit ) code on WordPress &#171; Tournas Dimitrios</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-9262</link>
		<dc:creator>How to detect Malicious ( Exploit ) code on WordPress &#171; Tournas Dimitrios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-9262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is criticism for the effectiveness of scanning malicious code , but my belief is that not all malicious code is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is criticism for the effectiveness of scanning malicious code , but my belief is that not all malicious code is [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Cody</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-8684</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-8684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent point. It&#039;s about trust, too. Trust is unfortunately given far too easy.

This is exactly why (say in system and application programming) we have source code scanners, e.g., lint and its derivatives: to check for mistakes and any questionable code in the source. A program checking itself is OK for some things (sanity, pointer checks, allocation success, and so on), but to expect it to check all of it, security especially, is a bit too trusting (and trust is a huge problem and in fact that&#039;s what IP spoofing was part of: trust relationship exploitation; say in the earlier days, the amount of stuff you could see because someone set up a hosts.equiv file. Scary reality looking back). Trusting a program to check itself is ridiculous and scary: what if IT has an issue itself? Or, say in the older days when malware was in its early life: piggy backing antivirus scanners (to those who don&#039;t know the term: it&#039;s when a virus would infect every program it could infect as the antivirus was opening it for them WHILE scanning it for viruses).

To expect wordpress itself to scan for issues is like expecting an antivirus to check if it itself is infected; if it&#039;s infected, then any of the following could be true:
a) it&#039;s terrible antivirus or it missed something obvious
b) it would likely be trapped anyway and would not detect it (the virus would realize what it&#039;s doing and prevent it from valid results)
c) if it was infected, how can you trust it ?

This very reason is why there&#039;s also apache modules out there like mod_security. 

Security is important but unfortunately you don&#039;t get taught it. You learn it through experience (and some don&#039;t, but I&#039;ll be nice on that one).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point. It&#8217;s about trust, too. Trust is unfortunately given far too easy.</p>
<p>This is exactly why (say in system and application programming) we have source code scanners, e.g., lint and its derivatives: to check for mistakes and any questionable code in the source. A program checking itself is OK for some things (sanity, pointer checks, allocation success, and so on), but to expect it to check all of it, security especially, is a bit too trusting (and trust is a huge problem and in fact that&#8217;s what IP spoofing was part of: trust relationship exploitation; say in the earlier days, the amount of stuff you could see because someone set up a hosts.equiv file. Scary reality looking back). Trusting a program to check itself is ridiculous and scary: what if IT has an issue itself? Or, say in the older days when malware was in its early life: piggy backing antivirus scanners (to those who don&#8217;t know the term: it&#8217;s when a virus would infect every program it could infect as the antivirus was opening it for them WHILE scanning it for viruses).</p>
<p>To expect wordpress itself to scan for issues is like expecting an antivirus to check if it itself is infected; if it&#8217;s infected, then any of the following could be true:<br />
a) it&#8217;s terrible antivirus or it missed something obvious<br />
b) it would likely be trapped anyway and would not detect it (the virus would realize what it&#8217;s doing and prevent it from valid results)<br />
c) if it was infected, how can you trust it ?</p>
<p>This very reason is why there&#8217;s also apache modules out there like mod_security. </p>
<p>Security is important but unfortunately you don&#8217;t get taught it. You learn it through experience (and some don&#8217;t, but I&#8217;ll be nice on that one).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WordPress Community Links: Big stack of Dummies edition &#124; WPCandy</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-8036</link>
		<dc:creator>WordPress Community Links: Big stack of Dummies edition &#124; WPCandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 03:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-8036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] but a couple weeks ago and we missed it. Otto wrote up an editorial talking about the process of scanning for malicious code in WordPress.Alec is an experienced developer who has worked with a number of content management [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but a couple weeks ago and we missed it. Otto wrote up an editorial talking about the process of scanning for malicious code in WordPress.Alec is an experienced developer who has worked with a number of content management [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wycks</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-7849</link>
		<dc:creator>Wycks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-7849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Otto great post, I recently launched wpsecure.net (built on my freetime) to cover some WordPress security issues, it interfaces directly with api.wordpress.com, for version updates on patches/etc.

When creating a section on good security plugins to use, I wasn&#039;t sure whether I should include scanners or file checkers, there seems to be a trend to just install a scanner and forget about the real issue at hand, which is prevention.

Still not sure if I should include scanner as a viable security measure, I guess monitoring is a decent aspect of security, I simply don&#039;t know which ones are any good or even if they work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Otto great post, I recently launched wpsecure.net (built on my freetime) to cover some WordPress security issues, it interfaces directly with api.wordpress.com, for version updates on patches/etc.</p>
<p>When creating a section on good security plugins to use, I wasn&#8217;t sure whether I should include scanners or file checkers, there seems to be a trend to just install a scanner and forget about the real issue at hand, which is prevention.</p>
<p>Still not sure if I should include scanner as a viable security measure, I guess monitoring is a decent aspect of security, I simply don&#8217;t know which ones are any good or even if they work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Doolin</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-7598</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Doolin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 00:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-7598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Edward, I run these kinds of plugins intermittently, when I have time to handle any potential problems they might uncover.  Almost always, all is well, but it&#039;s nice to walk through the process periodically.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward, I run these kinds of plugins intermittently, when I have time to handle any potential problems they might uncover.  Almost always, all is well, but it&#8217;s nice to walk through the process periodically.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Edward de Leau</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-7597</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward de Leau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-7597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OFFTOPIC:

Agreed. I collected a whole bunch of these files, many different patterns ranging from simple lines to large things. Would be interesting to put them somewhere to share.

What I did notice:
a) the files themselves and the files they changed got 644. So if your files are not 644-ed it was easy to detect them. Obviously a hacker can change this in any next release.
b) the file monitor wp plugin did a good job finding the new files but did not report the changed files such as &quot;footer.php&quot; but by back-tracking file names they were findable.
c) unfortunate file monitor plugin took so much resources on my GRID shared hosting that I had to take it offline.
d) I looked for something similar 

ONTOPIC:

It would strange indeed if intrusion detection would be build inside each software package. Instead an external solution would be better. When I asked around on StackExchange I was advised TripWire : http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/

But I did not have had a chance / time to use it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OFFTOPIC:</p>
<p>Agreed. I collected a whole bunch of these files, many different patterns ranging from simple lines to large things. Would be interesting to put them somewhere to share.</p>
<p>What I did notice:<br />
a) the files themselves and the files they changed got 644. So if your files are not 644-ed it was easy to detect them. Obviously a hacker can change this in any next release.<br />
b) the file monitor wp plugin did a good job finding the new files but did not report the changed files such as &#8220;footer.php&#8221; but by back-tracking file names they were findable.<br />
c) unfortunate file monitor plugin took so much resources on my GRID shared hosting that I had to take it offline.<br />
d) I looked for something similar </p>
<p>ONTOPIC:</p>
<p>It would strange indeed if intrusion detection would be build inside each software package. Instead an external solution would be better. When I asked around on StackExchange I was advised TripWire : <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/" rel="nofollow">http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/</a></p>
<p>But I did not have had a chance / time to use it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pothi</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-7561</link>
		<dc:creator>Pothi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-7561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Otto,

I understand. Thanks for the detailed response. Have a great day. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Otto,</p>
<p>I understand. Thanks for the detailed response. Have a great day. <img src='http://ottopress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Otto</title>
		<link>http://ottopress.com/2011/scanning-for-malicious-code-is-pointless/comment-page-1/#comment-7560</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ottopress.com/?p=446#comment-7560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[File monitoring for changes does indeed work pretty well, if you&#039;re careful to exclude directories that are supposed to change, like the uploads directory. Unfortunately, if you do that, then you create a gap whereby you might miss malicious code being uploaded. People can&#039;t cope with constant warnings about file changes though, they start to ignore them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>File monitoring for changes does indeed work pretty well, if you&#8217;re careful to exclude directories that are supposed to change, like the uploads directory. Unfortunately, if you do that, then you create a gap whereby you might miss malicious code being uploaded. People can&#8217;t cope with constant warnings about file changes though, they start to ignore them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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